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	<title>Comments on: Paglia on Obama, Law, Palin</title>
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		<title>By: Harvey</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7958</link>
		<dc:creator>Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7958</guid>
		<description>Camille Paglia is apparently a very smart lady and I find myself saying &quot;right on&quot; to every response.

If she is some subspecies of Liberal I guess I am too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Camille Paglia is apparently a very smart lady and I find myself saying &#8220;right on&#8221; to every response.</p>
<p>If she is some subspecies of Liberal I guess I am too!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Bagent</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7935</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Bagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7935</guid>
		<description>Kevin, the process of selecting a jury is a hodge-podge.  While OJ&#039;s defense team certainly got a favorable jury, I can only imagine the pool that they &lt;i&gt;voire dired&lt;/i&gt; to get what they ended up with.

Where the issues are complicated or numerous, it is the job of the defense to find the stupidest people they can to sit on the jury.  In this, OJ&#039;s team was successful.  That doesn&#039;t mean that Darden &lt;i&gt;et al&lt;/i&gt; failed, it just means that these were in an order within the jury pool that they couldn&#039;t get rid of.  It happens.  Each councilor gets so many peremptory challenges and unlimited challenges for cause, but even peremptory challenges now have restrictions that limit the appearance of a peremptory challenge based on potential racial issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, the process of selecting a jury is a hodge-podge.  While OJ&#8217;s defense team certainly got a favorable jury, I can only imagine the pool that they <i>voire dired</i> to get what they ended up with.</p>
<p>Where the issues are complicated or numerous, it is the job of the defense to find the stupidest people they can to sit on the jury.  In this, OJ&#8217;s team was successful.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that Darden <i>et al</i> failed, it just means that these were in an order within the jury pool that they couldn&#8217;t get rid of.  It happens.  Each councilor gets so many peremptory challenges and unlimited challenges for cause, but even peremptory challenges now have restrictions that limit the appearance of a peremptory challenge based on potential racial issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7929</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7929</guid>
		<description>Wow, I like Paglia&#039;s dialog with readers. Lot more interesting than watching TV talking heads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I like Paglia&#8217;s dialog with readers. Lot more interesting than watching TV talking heads.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7924</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7924</guid>
		<description>Brianna, I couldn&#039;t agree more.  The very process of selecting a jury is adversarial, and the result is usually far short of ideal.  And by the way, as long as we&#039;re talking about a jury of peers, who are OJ&#039;s peers?  For that matter, who are Roman Polanski&#039;s peers, assuming he ever goes to trial in the U.S.?  If Polanski is ever tried by a jury of his true peers, the Hollywood glitterati, we all know what will happen.  They&#039;ll not only acquit him, they&#039;ll probably nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

Having said all those snarky things, I&#039;m not sure I could devise a better system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brianna, I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  The very process of selecting a jury is adversarial, and the result is usually far short of ideal.  And by the way, as long as we&#8217;re talking about a jury of peers, who are OJ&#8217;s peers?  For that matter, who are Roman Polanski&#8217;s peers, assuming he ever goes to trial in the U.S.?  If Polanski is ever tried by a jury of his true peers, the Hollywood glitterati, we all know what will happen.  They&#8217;ll not only acquit him, they&#8217;ll probably nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize.</p>
<p>Having said all those snarky things, I&#8217;m not sure I could devise a better system.</p>
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		<title>By: Brianna</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7922</link>
		<dc:creator>Brianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7922</guid>
		<description>Tom, about your jury statistics:

&quot;We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world; and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men every day who don&#039;t know anything and can&#039;t read&quot; - Mark Twain

My point being that the OJ case was so sensational that I&#039;m willing to bet the court had to search far and wide for people who didn&#039;t know the facts of the case beforehand.  The end result?  Only 2 of the jurists held a college diploma and none of them regularly read newspapers (not counting tabloids, anyway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, about your jury statistics:</p>
<p>&#8220;We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world; and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men every day who don&#8217;t know anything and can&#8217;t read&#8221; &#8211; Mark Twain</p>
<p>My point being that the OJ case was so sensational that I&#8217;m willing to bet the court had to search far and wide for people who didn&#8217;t know the facts of the case beforehand.  The end result?  Only 2 of the jurists held a college diploma and none of them regularly read newspapers (not counting tabloids, anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7904</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7904</guid>
		<description>Brian, I think you&#039;re saying something very similar to what I said but come at it from a different angle.

It&#039;s the job of defense counsel to pick a jury that will be pursuadable. That OJ ended up with a mostly black jury is evidence of the competence of his counsel, IMHO. Furthermore, the &quot;set up&quot; argument was effective because it was *effectively* presented by top-notch lawyers.

The OJ trial happened to coincide with an extended period that I wasn&#039;t working due to a back injury. So, I had the luxery of watching most of the trial on TV. And I agreed with the Jury. Which was not that OJ was innocent... but rather that the prosecution hadn&#039;t eliminated reasonable doubt. Case in point being the infamous glove not fitting OJ&#039;s hand. I can&#039;t think of a better example of the relative incompetence of the prosecution than insisting that OJ try the bloody glove on. From a strictly &quot;Xs and Os&quot; strategy point of view it was a monumentally stupid decision which served to reinforce the defense&#039;s argument rather than the prosecution&#039;s argument.

But OJ is just one example of the effect of wealth on the justice system. Michael Jackson would be another famous one and given time I could dig up many other examples involving wealthy people who aren&#039;t/weren&#039;t black. Like... Michael Jackson. But I digress... LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I think you&#8217;re saying something very similar to what I said but come at it from a different angle.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the job of defense counsel to pick a jury that will be pursuadable. That OJ ended up with a mostly black jury is evidence of the competence of his counsel, IMHO. Furthermore, the &#8220;set up&#8221; argument was effective because it was *effectively* presented by top-notch lawyers.</p>
<p>The OJ trial happened to coincide with an extended period that I wasn&#8217;t working due to a back injury. So, I had the luxery of watching most of the trial on TV. And I agreed with the Jury. Which was not that OJ was innocent&#8230; but rather that the prosecution hadn&#8217;t eliminated reasonable doubt. Case in point being the infamous glove not fitting OJ&#8217;s hand. I can&#8217;t think of a better example of the relative incompetence of the prosecution than insisting that OJ try the bloody glove on. From a strictly &#8220;Xs and Os&#8221; strategy point of view it was a monumentally stupid decision which served to reinforce the defense&#8217;s argument rather than the prosecution&#8217;s argument.</p>
<p>But OJ is just one example of the effect of wealth on the justice system. Michael Jackson would be another famous one and given time I could dig up many other examples involving wealthy people who aren&#8217;t/weren&#8217;t black. Like&#8230; Michael Jackson. But I digress&#8230; LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7895</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7895</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an interesting website on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/jurypage.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;O.J. Simpson jury&lt;/a&gt; with lots of details, including these:  

9 blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites.  

10 women, 2 men.  

2 college graduates, 9 high school graduates, 1 with no diploma.

More from the website:

&lt;em&gt;Some other facts about the final jury: (1) None regularly read a newspaper, but eight regularly watch tabloid TV shows, (2) five thought it was sometimes appropriate to use force on a family member, (3) all were Democrats, (4) five reported that they or another family member had had a negative experience with the police, (5) nine thought that Simpson was less likely to be a murderer because he was a professional athlete.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s anyone&#039;s guess as to who was influenced by what.  However, as one who managed to watch most of the trail, there&#039;s no doubt in my mind that he&#039;s guilty.  No reasonable person could conclude otherwise based on the evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting website on the <a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/jurypage.html" rel="nofollow">O.J. Simpson jury</a> with lots of details, including these:  </p>
<p>9 blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites.  </p>
<p>10 women, 2 men.  </p>
<p>2 college graduates, 9 high school graduates, 1 with no diploma.</p>
<p>More from the website:</p>
<p><em>Some other facts about the final jury: (1) None regularly read a newspaper, but eight regularly watch tabloid TV shows, (2) five thought it was sometimes appropriate to use force on a family member, (3) all were Democrats, (4) five reported that they or another family member had had a negative experience with the police, (5) nine thought that Simpson was less likely to be a murderer because he was a professional athlete.</em></p>
<p>It&#8217;s anyone&#8217;s guess as to who was influenced by what.  However, as one who managed to watch most of the trail, there&#8217;s no doubt in my mind that he&#8217;s guilty.  No reasonable person could conclude otherwise based on the evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7891</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7891</guid>
		<description>That doesn&#039;t read like I wanted it to.  I meant to say  that even 1 conviction on made-up charges is one too many, let alone the 50 or 60 that had to be set aside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That doesn&#8217;t read like I wanted it to.  I meant to say  that even 1 conviction on made-up charges is one too many, let alone the 50 or 60 that had to be set aside.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7890</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7890</guid>
		<description>Kevin, you&#039;re right about wealth, but wrong about OJ.  He was acquitted by a largely black jury because they believed what his lawyers said about it being a set-up by the &quot;racist&quot; LAPD.  But, I cannot say that the LAPD&#039;s reputation didn&#039;t precede them.  They are notorious for ginning people into prison, as evidenced by what happened with their Rampart Division several years ago.  I don&#039;t recall how many convictions were set aside (seems like it was 50 or 60), but even 1 would be too many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, you&#8217;re right about wealth, but wrong about OJ.  He was acquitted by a largely black jury because they believed what his lawyers said about it being a set-up by the &#8220;racist&#8221; LAPD.  But, I cannot say that the LAPD&#8217;s reputation didn&#8217;t precede them.  They are notorious for ginning people into prison, as evidenced by what happened with their Rampart Division several years ago.  I don&#8217;t recall how many convictions were set aside (seems like it was 50 or 60), but even 1 would be too many.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7888</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7888</guid>
		<description>Kevin, when she said the law &quot;claims&quot; to be blind to wealth and power, I think she meant that it really isn&#039;t.

I agree about O.J.  But I would add that in addition to being rich enough to buy a bunch of good lawyers, he was lucky enough to get a clown for a judge.  Or was it just luck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, when she said the law &#8220;claims&#8221; to be blind to wealth and power, I think she meant that it really isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I agree about O.J.  But I would add that in addition to being rich enough to buy a bunch of good lawyers, he was lucky enough to get a clown for a judge.  Or was it just luck?</p>
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		<title>By: larry</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7887</link>
		<dc:creator>larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7887</guid>
		<description>The liberal tool of &quot;class warfare&quot; is well served by the &quot;hate crime platform&quot;. Red necks and trailer trash that cannot meet the financial muster as rich folks are easy prey for such hi-jacking of their own civil rights if in fact they have any?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The liberal tool of &#8220;class warfare&#8221; is well served by the &#8220;hate crime platform&#8221;. Red necks and trailer trash that cannot meet the financial muster as rich folks are easy prey for such hi-jacking of their own civil rights if in fact they have any?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7866</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7866</guid>
		<description>I agree with the philosophy Ms. Paglia appears to be proffering on hate crimes. It would be nice if the law were blind to race, gender and sexual orientation. But she loses me with the bit about the law claiming to be blind to wealth and power. 

The reality is that citizens of wealth and power have access to a fundamentally different level of justice than those without wealth or power. Case in point: OJ Simpson. He wasn&#039;t acquitted because he&#039;s black. He was acquitted because he could afford top-notch legal counsel who easily outclassed the prosecution team.

Even outside of criminal law people of wealth and power have access to a fundamentally different level of access to the halls of power than do those without wealth or power. 

I&#039;m not saying that there&#039;s anything inherently wrong with being wealthy or powerful (isn&#039;t that redundant?). But we delude ourselves if we think that the law is *functionally* blind to that wealth and power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the philosophy Ms. Paglia appears to be proffering on hate crimes. It would be nice if the law were blind to race, gender and sexual orientation. But she loses me with the bit about the law claiming to be blind to wealth and power. </p>
<p>The reality is that citizens of wealth and power have access to a fundamentally different level of justice than those without wealth or power. Case in point: OJ Simpson. He wasn&#8217;t acquitted because he&#8217;s black. He was acquitted because he could afford top-notch legal counsel who easily outclassed the prosecution team.</p>
<p>Even outside of criminal law people of wealth and power have access to a fundamentally different level of access to the halls of power than do those without wealth or power. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that there&#8217;s anything inherently wrong with being wealthy or powerful (isn&#8217;t that redundant?). But we delude ourselves if we think that the law is *functionally* blind to that wealth and power.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7861</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7861</guid>
		<description>Surely most murders are hate crimes, regardless of whether the perpetrator and victim are of the same race or creed. How is someone who kills a child for fun different from one who kills a child of the &quot;wrong&quot; color?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely most murders are hate crimes, regardless of whether the perpetrator and victim are of the same race or creed. How is someone who kills a child for fun different from one who kills a child of the &#8220;wrong&#8221; color?</p>
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		<title>By: doris</title>
		<link>http://opinion-forum.com/index/2009/10/paglia-on-obama-law-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-7856</link>
		<dc:creator>doris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opinion-forum.com/index/?p=6638#comment-7856</guid>
		<description>Sarah Palin, a bona fide American cultural heroine? Certainly not my hero, nor should she be anyone&#039;s. Hate crimes, totally right on, only special treatment for kids, elderly and the disabled. Hate is hate, no matter your color or orientation. All hate crimes should be treated as such, even if you are white or straight. When will the leaders listen to the people, we all seem to want the wars be ended and our troops pulled out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah Palin, a bona fide American cultural heroine? Certainly not my hero, nor should she be anyone&#8217;s. Hate crimes, totally right on, only special treatment for kids, elderly and the disabled. Hate is hate, no matter your color or orientation. All hate crimes should be treated as such, even if you are white or straight. When will the leaders listen to the people, we all seem to want the wars be ended and our troops pulled out.</p>
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